Author Topic: Black Bear Rankings vs My Hockey Rankings  (Read 3569 times)

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Reply #20:
 January 08, 2024, 12:41:33 PM
If you are using MHR for parity, then what's the flaw? In your examples MHR worked. You beat the teams your were favored to beat and lost to the team you were expected to lose to. So the fact that one win might of moved your MHR rating by a hundredth of point matters? The same win hurts you in Krach.

A win against a bad team still hurts you in Krach, Krach just hides it. In the CHN power rankings (which use Krach), both Boston College and Boston University have played 17 games. BC has a better record at 13-3-1, but KRACH rates BU higher at 12-4-1. The difference is the teams that they play. Wisconsin is even worse, at 18-4-0 and rated lower than BU and BC. Your krach is based of the krach ratings of the teams that you play, so playing a team with a lower krach will ding you even if you win (Just as it does with Boston College). The only difference is that Krach doesn't have an easy to read explanation of exactly how much the win against the crap team cost you....which is why no one is complaining about it on here.

In MHR, you can precisely determine ahead of time how a win against a bad team will affect your rating. If you care that much about your rating, you could change your tournament plans. In Krach, you know it will impact your rating negatively but have no idea beforehand exactly how bad it will affect you. Although, it's all kind of a moot point for you since HPR doesn't rank A teams...
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Reply #21:
 January 08, 2024, 04:22:16 PM
I don't know what the right answer is. But, I do find it frustrating. My son's AHF team had to play the 3rd ranked team and he is the 20th ranked team in their AHF division. We take the 'any given Sunday' mentality, but realistically we had to drive 90 minutes each way to likely get spanked. Chances of a W were slim to none. But the boys went and played hard. Lost 4-1. In MyHockey rankings, we are separated by about 140 spots. My understanding is that AHF does not take into account the score. So, I am left wondering what the point was. We should have lost by more. But the boys played hard and our goalie stopped 56 of 60 shots. I am guessing our Krach will go down because we lost.
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Reply #22:
 January 09, 2024, 11:03:09 AM
My Hockey System is pretty easy and straightforward.   I think you are missing the MHR numeric ranking score of your team and their team. Forget about the 150 spots higher.  The "spots" (850th in the nation vs 720 in the nation) are almost meaningless.  The spots are just a list of the MHR team rankings.

It is the MHR numeric that matters. If the team that you just lost to 4-1 had a MHR of 85.03, and your team had an MHR of 80.03, then My Hockey says that you should have lost by 5 goals.  But you lost by 3.  So your MHR goes up alttle bit! And theirs goes down...just a little.  But the math is pretty miniscule, because it averages every game.  One game swings your MHR by something like .03.

So, you could play a team that 300 spots ahead of you nationally, but is only 2 MHR ranking number ahead of you (2 goals).  So, the game should be close.
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Reply #23:
 January 09, 2024, 01:49:37 PM
Thank you for the information! I am really just trying to understand the system of rankings.

Team    AHF Rank     MHR   Krach    Games             Krach after the weekend games   SoS
1        2                     77.95   477           1v2 – win 4-0       529                                                239
                                                                1v3 – win 4-1                                                
2        6                     77.31   340           1v2 – loss 0-4      316                                            355
3        21             73.44   36           1v3 – loss 1-4      35                                                    149

I don’t understand the SoS. Is higher an ‘easier’ schedule or ‘harder’?
In the last 8 games, we have 6 games against the top 10 teams and 2 games against teams closer to our AHF ranking. Barring a miracle on ice, it looks like we are due for 2 more wins. If Krach doesn’t take into account the score of the game, then there is no real possibility for us to increase our Krach. Unless I am missing some information? 
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Reply #24:
 January 10, 2024, 11:18:49 AM
"If you care that much about your rating, you could change your tournament plans" What an a-hole thing to say. Why should we have to change our tournament plans because a 💩 team entered the same tournament. Airline tickets, rental cars were booked and paid for a few weeks after we registered and the tournament hotel not long after. Like I said beating a team by more than the max diff of 7 should not change you rating at all + or -, should stay the same. I don't think playing a 💩 team is covered under the cancelation policy. They scored 5 goals in 4 games with closest being a 8-2 lose. The team that flew in from I think it was Arizona that won the tournament beat them 14-0. 4 of the 5 teams played close games.  6 days before the tournament they revised the schedule and the we were told they let them in as the 5th team because the tournament unexpectedly needed to use their rink. I did feel bad for them because every team had to try and run up the score. The tournament went from a 4 team round robin with championship/consultation games to a 4 game round robin were w/l followed by goal differential as the 1st tie breaker determined the champion.
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Reply #25:
 January 10, 2024, 12:55:40 PM
Not to sound harsh....but it is simply not My Hockey's problem that you crushed a team 10-0 and your MHR went down.  My Hockey doesn't want to contribute to slaughters, so they limit the damage to 7 goals.  IMO it should be 5. You should get penalized for slaughtering teams.

That is on the tournament director (and sometimes it is out of their control) and the team entering. 

So you have two choices:  1) Play in a "fair" tournament that has teams relatively evenly matched (within 2-3 MHR numerical ranking...e.g. 85.03 vs 82.03) or 2) Enjoy your free game, have your goalie skate out, and get your kid who has no goals a few goals....but  don't complain about it.  Most tournaments will have at least 1 team that gets hammered.  Many tournaments also have sandbaggers, so it is good they lose MHR points.  Go raise the B Level Banner when you are an Upper A team. Way to go!

I have seen tournaments with the "spread" being less than 1 goal between all 5 teams (Big Bear Tournaments at the Gardens Ice House). And I have seen the polar opposite.

In the case of the original poster, I would theorize that their teams MHR ranking actually went up if you combined all 4 or 5 games. So the one blowout really didn't hurt them.  The OP stated that they were not sandbagging, just that their were 4 even teams and 1 team that was outmatched.
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Reply #26:
 January 11, 2024, 10:54:48 AM
"If you care that much about your rating, you could change your tournament plans" What an a-hole thing to say. Why should we have to change our tournament plans because a 💩 team entered the same tournament. Airline tickets, rental cars were booked and paid for a few weeks after we registered and the tournament hotel not long after. Like I said beating a team by more than the max diff of 7 should not change you rating at all + or -, should stay the same. I don't think playing a 💩 team is covered under the cancelation policy. They scored 5 goals in 4 games with closest being a 8-2 lose. The team that flew in from I think it was Arizona that won the tournament beat them 14-0. 4 of the 5 teams played close games.  6 days before the tournament they revised the schedule and the we were told they let them in as the 5th team because the tournament unexpectedly needed to use their rink. I did feel bad for them because every team had to try and run up the score. The tournament went from a 4 team round robin with championship/consultation games to a 4 game round robin were w/l followed by goal differential as the 1st tie breaker determined the champion.

If you played a tough schedule you would expect to be rated higher than other teams in your league with easy schedules, right? Because all wins are not the same?! Whether you use MHR or Krach, a win against a bad team has to impact your rating. I just will never understand why anyone would ever care about a one-hundredth of a point in their MHR rating.
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Reply #27:
 January 11, 2024, 12:52:20 PM
"If you care that much about your rating, you could change your tournament plans" What an a-hole thing to say. Why should we have to change our tournament plans because a 💩 team entered the same tournament. Airline tickets, rental cars were booked and paid for a few weeks after we registered and the tournament hotel not long after. Like I said beating a team by more than the max diff of 7 should not change you rating at all + or -, should stay the same. I don't think playing a 💩 team is covered under the cancelation policy. They scored 5 goals in 4 games with closest being a 8-2 lose. The team that flew in from I think it was Arizona that won the tournament beat them 14-0. 4 of the 5 teams played close games.  6 days before the tournament they revised the schedule and the we were told they let them in as the 5th team because the tournament unexpectedly needed to use their rink. I did feel bad for them because every team had to try and run up the score. The tournament went from a 4 team round robin with championship/consultation games to a 4 game round robin were w/l followed by goal differential as the 1st tie breaker determined the champion.

If you played a tough schedule you would expect to be rated higher than other teams in your league with easy schedules, right? Because all wins are not the same?! Whether you use MHR or Krach, a win against a bad team has to impact your rating. I just will never understand why anyone would ever care about a one-hundredth of a point in their MHR rating.

Maybe because it is a tight race for districts were your MYR matters, just a guess. Unless the districts changed this year and independent leagues like the AHF is given a spot like the NJYHL and DVHL do.
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Reply #28:
 January 12, 2024, 06:34:43 AM
That is the exact reason why. Top 5 PA teams in MHR, very close and every point counts.
83.78/83.09/82.91/82.64/82.52
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Reply #29:
 January 19, 2024, 11:51:05 AM
That is the exact reason why. Top 5 PA teams in MHR, very close and every point counts.
83.78/83.09/82.91/82.64/82.52

None of the hypothetical wins against bad teams that have been discussed would flip any of these rankings. Neither would Gunty's hypothetical empty net. They're not that close.

Does anyone have an actual real examples of teams dropping in the rankings from one empty net goal like Murry claims? Or from one win against a bad team? Because the alternative being discussed (hockeypowerrankings.com) has scores of examples of screwed up rankings. HPR doesn't even get the wins and losses correct. Example, Wissahickon Bantam AA. HPR says they're a 19 win team. AHF scores gives them with 20 wins. There are a lot gripes about MHR, but there is no viable alternative.
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